CoG & Hosted Game Discussion

I'm receiving lots of messages from people about that and I'm going to continue to mod these games.
What I am going to do is to try and compromise so that it doesn't seem like I don't care about them. Making games is their liveyhood and I'm not some kind of monster or total a**h***

I will continue to mod and post games like normal, I will add somemore credits lines to the author and suggest that if people wish to continue with the game, that they support the author and buy the full game if they like it. I will also refrain from using Lucky Patcher to pre-patch the game and unlock it for free as a few authors have told me they are ok with the mods, but not the IAP crack. If you want it fully unlocked from now on people will have to do that themselves.

But if an author still wishes for me to remove the links from public view, out of respect I will. From there if anyone wants the mod, they will have to send me a private message for it.

I think for the time being this is the best I can do. As I will not stop modding. I enjoy it and if the game devs and authors truly listen to the people, then maybe they will add cheat menus to their games and add similar cheats to what I mod.
Not everyone wants cheats, but lots of people do. So if the option is there for those who want to use it, they won't seek me out to add cheats.

I loved old school cheat menus in games. You either had a secret code to punch in or had to complete the game once to unlock it. I wish devs today still understood that. Adding a cheat menu to a game and allowing people to unlock it through playing and figuring out where they hid it is fun and adds so much replay value to a game. Every game I ever bought and Console or Handheld systems, I'd always play normal on my first play through, then if the game supported cheats, by using punch in codes or unlocking a cheat menu for extra lives, continues or weapons, it would make me play it over and over again. It really added to the replay value. I'd also beat the game normally first and even if it didn't have that option, If it was good I'd play again, but I'd also use the Game Genie and use cheats that way.

Somewhere along the way developers stopped listening to all the players and only wanted people to play their games "vanilla" style. No codes, no cheats, no super secret commands. That's boring for a lot of people. Now Cog/Hosted is story based so there are a bit different then other games, but still the stuff I add to them makes them a bit more fun for replay.

If possible, remind people to leave a feedback on the Google Playstore or any other platform they have if they like the game or some constructive feedback what parts they think needs improvement.

For big companies, they usually don't listen to feedback but for CoG and HG authors, this means a lot to them.

Axiom said:

I'm receiving lots of messages from people about that and I'm going to continue to mod these games.
What I am going to do is to try and compromise so that it doesn't seem like I don't care about them. Making games is their liveyhood and I'm not some kind of monster or total a**h***

I will continue to mod and post games like normal, I will add somemore credits lines to the author and suggest that if people wish to continue with the game, that they support the author and buy the full game if they like it. I will also refrain from using Lucky Patcher to pre-patch the game and unlock it for free as a few authors have told me they are ok with the mods, but not the IAP crack. If you want it fully unlocked from now on people will have to do that themselves.

But if an author still wishes for me to remove the links from public view, out of respect I will. From there if anyone wants the mod, they will have to send me a private message for it.

I think for the time being this is the best I can do. As I will not stop modding. I enjoy it and if the game devs and authors truly listen to the people, then maybe they will add cheat menus to their games and add similar cheats to what I mod.
Not everyone wants cheats, but lots of people do. So if the option is there for those who want to use it, they won't seek me out to add cheats.

I loved old school cheat menus in games. You either had a secret code to punch in or had to complete the game once to unlock it. I wish devs today still understood that. Adding a cheat menu to a game and allowing people to unlock it through playing and figuring out where they hid it is fun and adds so much replay value to a game. Every game I ever bought and Console or Handheld systems, I'd always play normal on my first play through, then if the game supported cheats, by using punch in codes or unlocking a cheat menu for extra lives, continues or weapons, it would make me play it over and over again. It really added to the replay value. I'd also beat the game normally first and even if it didn't have that option, If it was good I'd play again, but I'd also use the Game Genie and use cheats that way.

Somewhere along the way developers stopped listening to all the players and only wanted people to play their games "vanilla" style. No codes, no cheats, no super secret commands. That's boring for a lot of people. Now Cog/Hosted is story based so there are a bit different then other games, but still the stuff I add to them makes them a bit more fun for replay.

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Hurting the Authors of COG was never our intention at all. In fact I play the Axiom MOD, and if i liked the story i would purchase the app just to support and always leave 4-5 star review on PS.

I hated in IAP in Zombie Exodus and that was pure greedy part on author he wanted a lot more money. he created cheats and wanted money to unlock it. that unethical and lot like lootboxes. To Hell with that author.

The main point is to get a much much better and far superior gameplay experience in Axiom mod. And we have right to have that. No Author can come here and say that you cant have mods etc. We PAID for it and we will do whatever the heck we want to do with it. And if you implement IAP then hell with you.

I hated in IAP in Zombie Exodus and that was pure greedy part on author he wanted a lot more money. he created cheats and wanted money to unlock it. that unethical and lot like lootboxes. To Hell with that author.

C'mon.

That wasn't greedy. unless a writer who has to use a wheelchair and suffers from ALS and makes a high quality, long game for less than the price of a movie ticket is greedy.
You can play, easily, without the bonus points. You get 25 just for playing part 1!

You also get extra if you're a teenager.

These games are supposed to be challenging and fun. Some focus more on the story. Games such as the one I'm making, Unnatural etc. have or will have a newgame+ with bonuses and effectively a cheat menu after you've played it through once.

I just feel disheartened due to the fact as a 16 year old I could release my very own app, just to have it modded and given away freely by someone who makes money from my content.

And

Axiom said:

I enjoy it and if the game devs and authors truly listen to the people, then maybe they will add cheat menus to their games and add similar cheats to what I mod.

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They do. The Dev's and authors listen because I'd say almost half of the community has written, is writing or is planning to write a game. The Dev team are friendly and they do listen to what we say.

I can't get all you guys to never mod again, and if you personally weren't going to buy the game, I guess little is lost, but 1) These games are really cheap 2) You can beta, make actual decisions to help the author change/ fix the game (and ask for a cheat menu!) and play the game for free whilst helping the creators and 3) The CoG/HG business, from Dev's to the advances and support they offer, are extremely helpful, and in modding but more importantly giving away free, modded versions of someone else's content you aren't attacking a massive company like EA who encourages lootboxes, etc., you're hurting individual authors who either make the games to supplement their income or because they really love making games for others. None of these demographics fit Phytoplankton's description of a greedy author who should go to hell (you can 100% play all of the game without buying the extra points. He literally added something to make the game easier, and you still insult him.)

@rohan30

You could make an account and then beta test games, for free, whilst helping the author and community as a whole, pointing out errors with the game. The real gods are the creators of the game, who will let you straight up play their game for free in exchange for a bit of feedback.

And as this response was left in the old thread I'll paste it here for CoG/HG's stance

---------------------------------------------------

Hi Axiom,

Thank you for taking the time for coming and addressing our community.

Your arguments for modding don't fall on deaf ears here. The idea of adding your own elements to a story or giving yourself extra powers in a game is a tradition in the gaming world. This is the source of fan fiction and cheat codes and, arguably, even Dungeons & Dragons itself: the desire to take what someone else has done and make it your own, taking it in new directions that the originator couldn't or wouldn't conceive of.

We're sympathetic to your other argument, that pay-to-win IAPs are offensive and a waste of time and money. Many pay-to-win games charge users for temporary power boosts like extra lives or health, requiring players to pay an unlimited amount of money to avoid losing. *But we don't use that business model at all.* Further, there is no multiplayer mode here, so there's no "spend-to-beat-your-opponent" mechanic. Your argument about price-gouging or spend-to-win doesn't apply to our games.

As you point out, you work hard for your money. So do we, both here at Choice of Games, Hosted Games, and all the authors who write these stories. We sell these games, and then we use that money to pay our rents and feed our families. And we try to be very fair to our consumers: once you buy a copy, we'll help you transfer it to other platforms if we're able. As long as you've paid for it, you own it for life. This means that, for example, we have a dedicated Customer Support person who responds to transfer requests and refund requests on a very prompt basis.

And what you don't realize when you mod our games is that you don't mod them very well. We receive a dozen support emails a day from users of your hacked mods who wonder why their game doesn't work, because you've modded things that cause the game to break. In short, not only are you stealing from us, but you're making more work for us in the process. Work which we pay a staff person to address.

So, if you're serious that you like a challenge, start by being a better modder. QA your products. Change the support email to yourself, rather than to us, so you can provide support when you create bugs. (Replace the `getSupportEmail()` function in `ui.js`.) If you don't, then it's clear to everyone that your argument is not "I like a challenge," but really just "I'm a thief, and you can't stop me."

Finally, yes, allow me to take you up on your offer. As the perpetual license-holder for all these games, please do take down the links on the Sbenny forums. If you're unwilling to do that, then please at least leave the advertisements in place, so we can earn some ad revenue from our hard work.

Regards,
-Jason Hill
Choice of Games LLC
Hosted Games LLC

yes the authors are the real god.. I'm not denying that

yes @Axiom had already removed those links

Choicer said:

I hated in IAP in Zombie Exodus and that was pure greedy part on author he wanted a lot more money. he created cheats and wanted money to unlock it. that unethical and lot like lootboxes. To Hell with that author.

C'mon.

That wasn't greedy. unless a writer who has to use a wheelchair and suffers from ALS and makes a high quality, long game for less than the price of a movie ticket is greedy.
You can play, easily, without the bonus points. You get 25 just for playing part 1!

You also get extra if you're a teenager.

These games are supposed to be challenging and fun. Some focus more on the story. Games such as the one I'm making, Unnatural etc. have or will have a newgame+ with bonuses and effectively a cheat menu after you've played it through once.

I just feel disheartened due to the fact as a 16 year old I could release my very own app, just to have it modded and given away freely by someone who makes money from my content.

And


They do. The Dev's and authors listen because I'd say almost half of the community has written, is writing or is planning to write a game. The Dev team are friendly and they do listen to what we say.

I can't get all you guys to never mod again, and if you personally weren't going to buy the game, I guess little is lost, but 1) These games are really cheap 2) You can beta, make actual decisions to help the author change/ fix the game (and ask for a cheat menu!) and play the game for free whilst helping the creators and 3) The CoG/HG business, from Dev's to the advances and support they offer, are extremely helpful, and in modding but more importantly giving away free, modded versions of someone else's content you aren't attacking a massive company like EA who encourages lootboxes, etc., you're hurting individual authors who either make the games to supplement their income or because they really love making games for others. None of these demographics fit Phytoplankton's description of a greedy author who should go to hell (you can 100% play all of the game without buying the extra points. He literally added something to make the game easier, and you still insult him.)

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Well I always buy and support the game if its good and doesnt have BS IAP Lootboxes system of Zomie Exodus.. its was pure looting
you call of of "These games are supposed to be challenging and fun" yet someone pays money and get better points/experience then me is not fair as i am paying money to buy the games. the authors was being greedy by offering better experience to people who pay and those who dont suffer

The point is we dont want your challenging and fun gameplay as you describe. we reject that. we want the Axiom version. and we are full free to do whatever we want as we are paying you. Dont Forget that!

Even I am writing a story in ChoicescriptIDE (the ide is really great! BTW) and First thing I'll do on finishing is Ask @Axiom to make a great mod for it, if wants

PS. @Axiom is GOD!

Listen I'm not going to get all legal here because 1) That won't actually stop you guys, new website new server etc, and 2) I'll be banned super quick, but can I address your points.

1) You don't need the challenging and fun gameplay. I f you help the authors in a beta instead of hurting them by sharing mods, you can ask them for a cheat menu of easy option. Axiom's version, @Axiom no offence intended, is merely the creators game but easier. The creators can do that themselves if you ask in betas, and help them.

charr said:

and we are full free to do whatever we want as we are paying you. Dont Forget that!

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You haven't given proof you've paid, like a receipt from Google Play, but regardless do you think everyone here pays? There's a whole sub section on COG forums dedicated to modding games you own. The problem's that the majority of people who download mod's for CoG/HG's don't pay for them beforehand, because why would they.

charr said:

Even I am writing a story in ChoicescriptIDE (the ide is really great! BTW) and First thing I'll do on finishing is Ask @Axiom to make a great mod for it, if wants

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Why? As a creator, just make it yourself. And the fact you'll get no money for it. Maybe you can afford that, but that doesn't mean everyone is as fortunate as you. I'm willing to hazard a guess that some people in this thread have made more than the writers will ever make from their games.

Also there isn't, and has never been, a lootbox system in CoG/HG's games. Including ZE:SH.
Maybe you hate the author for some reason, but as an offline, single-player game there are no loot-boxes or pay to win options.

Choicer said:

Listen I'm not going to get all legal here because 1) That won't actually stop you guys, new website new server etc, and 2) I'll be banned super quick, but can I address your points.

1) You don't need the challenging and fun gameplay. I f you help the authors in a beta instead of hurting them by sharing mods, you can ask them for a cheat menu of easy option. Axiom's version, @Axiom no offence intended, is merely the creators game but easier. The creators can do that themselves if you ask in betas, and help them.


You haven't given proof you've paid, like a receipt from Google Play, but regardless do you think everyone here pays? There's a whole sub section on COG forums dedicated to modding games you own. The problem's that the majority of people who download mod's for CoG/HG's don't pay for them beforehand, because why would they.



Why? As a creator, just make it yourself. And the fact you'll get no money for it. Maybe you can afford that, but that doesn't mean everyone is as fortunate as you. I'm willing to hazard a guess that some people in this thread have made more than the writers will ever make from their games.

Post automatically merged: May 15, 2018

Also there isn't, and has never been, a lootbox system in CoG/HG's games. Including ZE:SH.
Maybe you hate the author for some reason, but as an offline, single-player game there are no loot-boxes or pay to win options.

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You cant even comprehend what Axiom is here. He is legend he is GOD and you'll not understand that as you are but outsider from cog with biased viewpoint for us that we are filthy pirates who steal your money. Well I dont have to prove myself to you by showing my receipts. and your attitude really makes me want not pay you and pirate instead. I wont do that though.

No Offence but Authors cant recreate the magic Axiom does. There is a reason its called Axiomified Gaming Experience
And I am there in beta at cog as well as lots of people are helping me with choicscript. Its not the point, why dont you understand that we dont the official mods or ask the authors. They are doing the great job by creating such amazing and beautiful stories. Let them do that... what mod we want we'll create that.

"there are no loot-boxes or pay to win options" Yes I know that but what that dev implemented was as as bad as those microtransactions of EA and Ubisoft that we all hate.. its was a metaphor for them. pay to unlock more points then other and get better gameplay experience. and I dont personally hate that dev if fact he created a really amazing story.

Hey listen I'm not trying to be aggressive, but I want you to clarify.

Is Axiom better than the OG creators at making their own game, and so much so he deserves the money from the mods, instead of them?

From what I've seen, he doesn't write any more content, he merely gives you a lot of free resources and the game for free

You're allowed to do this yourself, and can do this easily.

Maybe when hacking server sided games, @Axiom is "a god", but here he's just a guy giving away writer's games for free, adding little to not extra content.

And the microtransactions argument is merely a pretext to justify you modding. You don't need the extra points. You get 25 just for having played ZE, and if you play as 3 of the tons of classes offered and take challenges you can have tons of points. You don't need to steal/ hack/ mod/ distribute the games illegally whilst not being the license holder in order to do that.

Choicer said:

Is Axiom better than the OG creators at making their own game, and so much so he deserves the money from the mods, instead of them?

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Axiom Doesn't make money out of it in fact he looses his money in paying you guys as well as his time and resources. I really dont know why you are so afraid is that because the control is being taken away from you or you cant accept the fact that people dont want to play your gameplay and create thier own. I dont know why but that argument is pathetic

Choicer said:

You're allowed to do this yourself, and can do this easily.

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But we dont want to do that... Axiom is there for us...

Choicer said:

Maybe when hacking server sided games, @Axiom is "a god", but here he's just a guy giving away writer's games for free, adding little to not extra content.

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Careful there buddy watch what you are saying about Axiom

Choicer said:

You don't need the extra points

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See that's my point Please STOP telling/deciding for us.. we want to do whatever the hell we want. You dont come here and start telling us that mods are bad, request authors to makes cheats for you.. Oh we have resources at out cog forum you can make your mods. We know all that, dont want it.

Choicer said:

And the microtransactions argument is merely a pretext to justify you modding

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Hell No, its no pretext... its our outrage... you shove IAP down our throats and tell us its for our own good.. we show you what we can do

Let me tell you I am not fortunate or rich at all. I can barely afford a game per month and yet I pay to show my support and loyalty but given you cog authors high headed atitude is making me bit uncomfortable.
I have very simple funda: Those who are going to pirates they will, you cant stop them even mighty Denuvo was crushed by CPY (Viva CPY!) and then there are some people who will pay and support you. You cant expect people to start paying you by threatening them by law and giving them moral lectures, that makes people even more rebellious and turn them away from you. I am not sure if you know the story of CD RED Projekt 's Witcher vs Ubishit but that should you teach you something

Once my game get released It will get pirated and I know that for fact and will be very happy to have an Axiom MOD for it as I know that those who support me will buy it and thats all I want.

Axiom is as human as everyone else.

You want his kind of mods, ok I understand that, even if you could be as "God" as you say that Axiom is making those mods too.

You see, Axiom tried to talk peacefully
there, not like you are doing right now, so if you like how he acts so much,
please breath a little more before you write.

Everyone should see both parts of the arguments, I don't see Axiom as a God not here and I wouldn't see him like that anywhere else, but at least he tried to be diplomatic enough even if he received messages that were not polite, because of course that the authors would feel bad and angry.

There's no point in talking, if we can't criticize what Axiom does "because he's a God" and we don't know all that he does for the the world (by modding games), he said that he does this (modding) because he likes to do it, he's "wasting" his time yeah, but because he wants not because someone is forcing him to do It.

I'm just gonna make a quick reply beefier i head to work.

I went over to the CoG forum and did what no other modder has. I tried to come to a compromise. To us it sounds fair, to them it just sounds like a lot of B.S.

A very few were ok with me just removing the IAP patch and just modding stats and stuff.
Others, and most, want total removal and nothing less. I know what we as modders do pisses off the original maker of an app/game. I don't do it for that reason. I do it because i like modding, hacking, tweaking and in instances of greed, i like to make our fair play.

I'm not trying to justify anything, i don't feel guilty about anything. I'm just stating why i mod and nothing more.

I didn't expect a warm welcome and only two people were actually very polite.

This discussion will be over for me by days end and I'll decide on how i will proceed.